I am looking for some advice on the forms and process I need to go
through, to buy a glider registered in the US. From what I can tell,
I need a Bill of Sale (form 8050-2) and an Aircraft Registration
Application (form 8050-1). It appears that the latter form is only
available from the local FSDO (San Jose in my case). Then I need to
transfer title of the glider trailer at the DMV by having the previous
owner sign over the pink slip.

What am I missing, and what have I gotten wrong?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Matt (Jr)

On Oct 2, 11:19*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
> I am looking for some advice on the forms and process I need to go
> through, to buy a glider registered in the US. *From what I can tell,
> I need a Bill of Sale (form 8050-2) and an Aircraft Registration
> Application (form 8050-1). *It appears that the latter form is only
> available from the local FSDO (San Jose in my case). *Then I need to
> transfer title of the glider trailer at the DMV by having the previous
> owner sign over the pink slip.
>
> What am I missing, and what have I gotten wrong?
>
> Any advice is greatly appreciated.
>
> Matt (Jr)

Call the FSDO and they will mail out the forms, fill them out and be
sure to print your name below your signature on your new registration,
include a check for $5 bucks and your good to go. You may fly the bird
with copies of these documents in the sircraft...................get
insurance also.
Have fun with your Ventus C,
JJ

Find out if you are required to pay sales tax ( as we are in Fla.). If
you don't pay up front,the state will find out from the FAA and send
you a notice to pay + interest+penalty from the date of purchase. Pay
attention what fees/taxes you pay with the DMV so you don't pay taxes
twice.
What? You paid 4000$ for the spare tire and 4000$ for the
trailer...good deal!
What? You paid 6000$ for the instruments (used) and 20000$ for the
glider...good deal!
What? The glider needs a new finish and you only paid 14000$ for
it....all the better.

The glider is one item, the trailer is another. Treat them separately.

Mr. Haney would be proud.

R

No Sales tax is due in California for this transaction. Of that I am
sure. But this raises the question, do I need a separate bill of sale
for the glider (form 8050-2) and another for the trailer? What are
the considerations when pricing the trailer? I assume registration
fees at the DMV are based on it's value.

I will purchase insurance of course, but I am told by Costello that
liability coverage for an auto accident involving the trailer must be
covered by my auto insurance. The value of the trailer and its
contents are covered by Costello.

Matt (Jr)

Hi Matt,

I just went through this in the last month.

In addition, the as the certificate holder the previous owner was
required to fill out the reverse side of the current airworthiness
certificate and return it to the FAA. They referenced 14 CFR 47.14(a)
(4) in a letter sent to him.

This may have been because the aircraft I purchased was certified
experimental?? I didn't have to do that to transfer my prior ship
which had the standard airworthiness certificate.

In addition, heed what JJ mentioned...be sure to print your name below
the signature in the signature block section. I failed to do that
when I originally completed the paperwork.

Congratulations on your new ship!

FC Norton

In Florida they ask for a value and if one did not build it themselves
showing cost for materials, they ask for a bill of sale for the
trailer. They take the citizen at his word and let a reviewer look
over the paperwork later and do a float test. If they are suspicious,
one could be called apon to prove the value at a future date, checking
for tax fraud.
The value you claim would have to be way out of the ballpark to
attract scrutiny since so many DMV applications takes place per day.
The story must be reasonable.
The seller could be contacted.
Glad you don't pay 6.5% sales as we do in Fl.
R

I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
separately.
R

On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
> I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> separately.
> R

Costello doesn't care about the price of either. it is strictly what
we mutually agree to. I don't think you are required to report a
price to the FAA either. The DMV might care about the trailer price
though. And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability. They
might care about trailer price too.

Matt

At 15:19 03 October 2010, hretting wrote:
>Find out if you are required to pay sales tax ( as we are in Fla.). If
>you don't pay up front,the state will find out from the FAA and send
>you a notice to pay + interest+penalty from the date of purchase. Pay
>attention what fees/taxes you pay with the DMV so you don't pay taxes
>twice.
>What? You paid 4000$ for the spare tire and 4000$ for the
>trailer...good deal!
>What? You paid 6000$ for the instruments (used) and 20000$ for the
>glider...good deal!
>What? The glider needs a new finish and you only paid 14000$ for
>it....all the better.
>
>The glider is one item, the trailer is another. Treat them separately.
>
>Mr. Haney would be proud.
>
>R
>
>

On Oct 4, 8:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
> On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
>
> > I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> > trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> > separately.
> > R
>
> Costello doesn't care about the price of either. *it is strictly what
> we mutually agree to. *I don't think you are required to report a
> price to the FAA either. *The DMV might care about the trailer price
> though. *And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability. *They
> might care about trailer price too.
>
> Matt

The feds don't care what price you put on the bill of sale, but it
will be reported to the state of California (by the feds) and if you
do not pay Use Tax (aka sales tax) on it within I think it's 90 days
you will get a bill from the State Board of Equalization. The bill
will have your tax calculated based on the $ amount you have reported
on the bill of sale times the use tax rate for your county +penalty
+interest, unless you intend to keep it out of state.

When you go to DMV (to register) you will have to pay Use Tax on the
trailer based on how much you payed for it. If you're an honest tax
payer like me you might consider having your seller give you 2
separate receipts, 1 for the trailer and 1 for the glider both adding
up to the total price of the purchase to make you trip to DMV more
enjoyable.

Then next year be prepared to get a property tax bill from your county
tax man. It will be assessed at proposition 13 rates of 1% of the
value, you will get that every year. One way around that one is if
your glider or airplane is 35 years or older you can apply for an
exemption based on a historical exemption.

On Oct 4, 4:16*pm, glidergeek > wrote:
> On Oct 4, 8:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
>
> > > I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> > > trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> > > separately.
> > > R
>
> > Costello doesn't care about the price of either. *it is strictly what
> > we mutually agree to. *I don't think you are required to report a
> > price to the FAA either. *The DMV might care about the trailer price
> > though. *And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability. *They
> > might care about trailer price too.
>
> > Matt
>
> The feds don't care what price you put on the bill of sale, but it
> will be reported to the state of California (by the feds) and if you
> do not pay Use Tax (aka sales tax) on it within I think it's 90 days
> you will get a bill from the State Board of Equalization. The bill
> will have your tax calculated based on the $ amount you have reported
> on the bill of sale times the use tax rate for your county +penalty
> +interest, unless you intend to keep it out of state.
>
> When you go to DMV (to register) you will have to pay Use Tax on the
> trailer based on how much you payed for it. If you're an honest tax
> payer like me you might consider having your seller give you 2
> separate receipts, 1 for the trailer and 1 for the glider both adding
> up to the total price of the purchase to make you trip to DMV more
> enjoyable.
>
> Then next year be prepared to get a property tax bill from your county
> tax man. It will be assessed at proposition 13 rates of 1% of the
> value, you will get that every year. One way around that one is if
> your glider or airplane is 35 years or older you can apply for an
> exemption based on a historical exemption.

.... or you can do what many others do and "hide" it in a nearby tax-
free state. For Californians, Nevada, Arizona and Utah seem to work
quite well!

Mike

Matt, regarding "Use Tax":
In California, the following phrases may be useful in correspondence
with the Bored Of Equalization.
"The glider was purchased in an occasional sale, as per BOE
publication 61, sections 6006.5 and 6367. It is not an aircraft
designed for powered navigation in the air, ref BOE regulation 1593."
Essentially, previously-US-registered gliders purchased from
individuals are exempt from CA Use Tax (sales tax).
Jim

On Oct 4, 4:16*pm, glidergeek > wrote:
> On Oct 4, 8:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
>
> > > I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> > > trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> > > separately.
> > > R
>
> > Costello doesn't care about the price of either. *it is strictly what
> > we mutually agree to. *I don't think you are required to report a
> > price to the FAA either. *The DMV might care about the trailer price
> > though. *And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability. *They
> > might care about trailer price too.
>
> > Matt
>
> The feds don't care what price you put on the bill of sale, but it
> will be reported to the state of California (by the feds) and if you
> do not pay Use Tax (aka sales tax) on it within I think it's 90 days
> you will get a bill from the State Board of Equalization. The bill
> will have your tax calculated based on the $ amount you have reported
> on the bill of sale times the use tax rate for your county +penalty
> +interest, unless you intend to keep it out of state.
>
> When you go to DMV (to register) you will have to pay Use Tax on the
> trailer based on how much you payed for it. If you're an honest tax
> payer like me you might consider having your seller give you 2
> separate receipts, 1 for the trailer and 1 for the glider both adding
> up to the total price of the purchase to make you trip to DMV more
> enjoyable.
>
> Then next year be prepared to get a property tax bill from your county
> tax man. It will be assessed at proposition 13 rates of 1% of the
> value, you will get that every year. One way around that one is if
> your glider or airplane is 35 years or older you can apply for an
> exemption based on a historical exemption.

There is absolutely no use tax on a sailplane in California, aircraft
not capable of "powered navigation" are exempt -- so motorglider
owners (like me) pay sales tax. The state can try billing you whatever
they want - if you've paid an invalid use tax bill on a glider I thank
you for you donation to the state of California.

You will get assessed a property tax, pretty insignificant in the
overall picture. And where i keep my glider the county puts that fee
towards local airport maintenance so I feel good about paying it.

Darryl

On Oct 4, 9:06*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Oct 4, 4:16*pm, glidergeek > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 4, 8:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
>
> > > > I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> > > > trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> > > > separately.
> > > > R
>
> > > Costello doesn't care about the price of either. *it is strictly what
> > > we mutually agree to. *I don't think you are required to report a
> > > price to the FAA either. *The DMV might care about the trailer price
> > > though. *And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability. *They
> > > might care about trailer price too.
>
> > > Matt
>
> > The feds don't care what price you put on the bill of sale, but it
> > will be reported to the state of California (by the feds) and if you
> > do not pay Use Tax (aka sales tax) on it within I think it's 90 days
> > you will get a bill from the State Board of Equalization. The bill
> > will have your tax calculated based on the $ amount you have reported
> > on the bill of sale times the use tax rate for your county +penalty
> > +interest, unless you intend to keep it out of state.
>
> > When you go to DMV (to register) you will have to pay Use Tax on the
> > trailer based on how much you payed for it. If you're an honest tax
> > payer like me you might consider having your seller give you 2
> > separate receipts, 1 for the trailer and 1 for the glider both adding
> > up to the total price of the purchase to make you trip to DMV more
> > enjoyable.
>
> > Then next year be prepared to get a property tax bill from your county
> > tax man. It will be assessed at proposition 13 rates of 1% of the
> > value, you will get that every year. One way around that one is if
> > your glider or airplane is 35 years or older you can apply for an
> > exemption based on a historical exemption.
>
> There is absolutely no use tax on a sailplane in California, aircraft
> not capable of "powered navigation" are exempt -- so motorglider
> owners (like me) pay sales tax. The state can try billing you whatever
> they want - if you've paid an invalid use tax bill on a glider I thank
> you for you donation to the state of California.
>
> You will get assessed a property tax, pretty insignificant in the
> overall picture. And where i keep my glider the county puts that fee
> towards local airport maintenance so I feel good about paying it.
>
> Darryl

Darryl is correct. No use tax in California for gliders. There is
also a use tax exemption for buying an aircraft from a family member
(even with a motor, I believe). I have been told that the tax man
swings by the airport around January each year to count up the planes
to assess property taxes. How does he determine the value to tax if
no price is reported to the FAA? And if the aircraft is not at the
airport in January, I guess he misses it that year?

Matt

On Oct 4, 11:15*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
> On Oct 4, 9:06*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 4, 4:16*pm, glidergeek > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 4, 8:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
>
> > > > > I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> > > > > trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> > > > > separately.
> > > > > R
>
> > > > Costello doesn't care about the price of either. *it is strictly what
> > > > we mutually agree to. *I don't think you are required to report a
> > > > price to the FAA either. *The DMV might care about the trailer price
> > > > though. *And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability. *They
> > > > might care about trailer price too.
>
> > > > Matt
>
> > > The feds don't care what price you put on the bill of sale, but it
> > > will be reported to the state of California (by the feds) and if you
> > > do not pay Use Tax (aka sales tax) on it within I think it's 90 days
> > > you will get a bill from the State Board of Equalization. The bill
> > > will have your tax calculated based on the $ amount you have reported
> > > on the bill of sale times the use tax rate for your county +penalty
> > > +interest, unless you intend to keep it out of state.
>
> > > When you go to DMV (to register) you will have to pay Use Tax on the
> > > trailer based on how much you payed for it. If you're an honest tax
> > > payer like me you might consider having your seller give you 2
> > > separate receipts, 1 for the trailer and 1 for the glider both adding
> > > up to the total price of the purchase to make you trip to DMV more
> > > enjoyable.
>
> > > Then next year be prepared to get a property tax bill from your county
> > > tax man. It will be assessed at proposition 13 rates of 1% of the
> > > value, you will get that every year. One way around that one is if
> > > your glider or airplane is 35 years or older you can apply for an
> > > exemption based on a historical exemption.
>
> > There is absolutely no use tax on a sailplane in California, aircraft
> > not capable of "powered navigation" are exempt -- so motorglider
> > owners (like me) pay sales tax. The state can try billing you whatever
> > they want - if you've paid an invalid use tax bill on a glider I thank
> > you for you donation to the state of California.
>
> > You will get assessed a property tax, pretty insignificant in the
> > overall picture. And where i keep my glider the county puts that fee
> > towards local airport maintenance so I feel good about paying it.
>
> > Darryl
>
> Darryl is correct. *No use tax in California for gliders. *There is
> also a use tax exemption for buying an aircraft from a family member
> (even with a motor, I believe). *I have been told that the tax man
> swings by the airport around January each year to count up the planes
> to assess property taxes. *How does he determine the value to tax if
> no price is reported to the FAA? *And if the aircraft is not at the
> airport in January, I guess he misses it that year?
>
> Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The state pukes read the fed aircraft registry every year and send out
a 'feeler' letter to any ship that isn't in their system. They know
nothing more than type aircraft, N number and your address. They will
ask for purchase price, condition, aivionics, etc. Tell them what your
conscience directs, rembering it is not a sin to lie to the tax man!

Years back I got this letter and told them the ship was in
Nevada...............3 months later I got a letter from Nevada, so I
told them the ship was in California. Didn't work, the Counties talk
to each other! Nevada (Washo Co) sent me a tax bill and had no
interest in discussing the amount.

Bottom line....most County assessors know very little about sailplanes
and believed my LS-6 was worth 15K. That ship is now the proud
possession of Matt's daddy!
Cheers,
JJ
JJ

On Oct 5, 6:36*am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> On Oct 4, 11:15*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 4, 9:06*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 4, 4:16*pm, glidergeek > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 4, 8:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> > > > > > trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> > > > > > separately.
> > > > > > R
>
> > > > > Costello doesn't care about the price of either. *it is strictly what
> > > > > we mutually agree to. *I don't think you are required to report a
> > > > > price to the FAA either. *The DMV might care about the trailer price
> > > > > though. *And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability.. *They
> > > > > might care about trailer price too.
>
> > > > > Matt
>
> > > > The feds don't care what price you put on the bill of sale, but it
> > > > will be reported to the state of California (by the feds) and if you
> > > > do not pay Use Tax (aka sales tax) on it within I think it's 90 days
> > > > you will get a bill from the State Board of Equalization. The bill
> > > > will have your tax calculated based on the $ amount you have reported
> > > > on the bill of sale times the use tax rate for your county +penalty
> > > > +interest, unless you intend to keep it out of state.
>
> > > > When you go to DMV (to register) you will have to pay Use Tax on the
> > > > trailer based on how much you payed for it. If you're an honest tax
> > > > payer like me you might consider having your seller give you 2
> > > > separate receipts, 1 for the trailer and 1 for the glider both adding
> > > > up to the total price of the purchase to make you trip to DMV more
> > > > enjoyable.
>
> > > > Then next year be prepared to get a property tax bill from your county
> > > > tax man. It will be assessed at proposition 13 rates of 1% of the
> > > > value, you will get that every year. One way around that one is if
> > > > your glider or airplane is 35 years or older you can apply for an
> > > > exemption based on a historical exemption.
>
> > > There is absolutely no use tax on a sailplane in California, aircraft
> > > not capable of "powered navigation" are exempt -- so motorglider
> > > owners (like me) pay sales tax. The state can try billing you whatever
> > > they want - if you've paid an invalid use tax bill on a glider I thank
> > > you for you donation to the state of California.
>
> > > You will get assessed a property tax, pretty insignificant in the
> > > overall picture. And where i keep my glider the county puts that fee
> > > towards local airport maintenance so I feel good about paying it.
>
> > > Darryl
>
> > Darryl is correct. *No use tax in California for gliders. *There is
> > also a use tax exemption for buying an aircraft from a family member
> > (even with a motor, I believe). *I have been told that the tax man
> > swings by the airport around January each year to count up the planes
> > to assess property taxes. *How does he determine the value to tax if
> > no price is reported to the FAA? *And if the aircraft is not at the
> > airport in January, I guess he misses it that year?
>
> > Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The state pukes read the fed aircraft registry every year and send out
> a 'feeler' letter to any ship that isn't in their system. They know
> nothing more than type aircraft, N number and your address. They will
> ask for purchase price, condition, aivionics, etc. Tell them what your
> conscience directs, rembering it is not a sin to lie to the tax man!
>
> Years back I got this letter and told them the ship was in
> Nevada...............3 months later I got a letter from Nevada, so I
> told them the ship was in California. Didn't work, the Counties talk
> to each other! Nevada (Washo Co) sent me a tax bill and had no
> interest in discussing the amount.
>
> Bottom line....most County assessors know very little about sailplanes
> and believed my LS-6 was worth 15K. That ship is now the proud
> possession of Matt's daddy!
> Cheers,
> JJ
> JJ

He is completely in love with the LS-6, JJ

On Oct 4, 6:07*pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> On Oct 4, 4:16*pm, glidergeek > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 4, 8:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
>
> > > > I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> > > > trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> > > > separately.
> > > > R
>
> > > Costello doesn't care about the price of either. *it is strictly what
> > > we mutually agree to. *I don't think you are required to report a
> > > price to the FAA either. *The DMV might care about the trailer price
> > > though. *And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability. *They
> > > might care about trailer price too.
>
> > > Matt
>
> > The feds don't care what price you put on the bill of sale, but it
> > will be reported to the state of California (by the feds) and if you
> > do not pay Use Tax (aka sales tax) on it within I think it's 90 days
> > you will get a bill from the State Board of Equalization. The bill
> > will have your tax calculated based on the $ amount you have reported
> > on the bill of sale times the use tax rate for your county +penalty
> > +interest, unless you intend to keep it out of state.
>
> > When you go to DMV (to register) you will have to pay Use Tax on the
> > trailer based on how much you payed for it. If you're an honest tax
> > payer like me you might consider having your seller give you 2
> > separate receipts, 1 for the trailer and 1 for the glider both adding
> > up to the total price of the purchase to make you trip to DMV more
> > enjoyable.
>
> > Then next year be prepared to get a property tax bill from your county
> > tax man. It will be assessed at proposition 13 rates of 1% of the
> > value, you will get that every year. One way around that one is if
> > your glider or airplane is 35 years or older you can apply for an
> > exemption based on a historical exemption.
>
> ... or you can do what many others do and "hide" it in a nearby tax-
> free state. *For Californians, Nevada, Arizona and Utah seem to work
> quite well!
>
> Mike

Sorry MIke UT will charge you sales tax and a yearly state use fee.
For experimental planes it is $125 per year.

On Oct 5, 6:36*am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> On Oct 4, 11:15*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 4, 9:06*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 4, 4:16*pm, glidergeek > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 4, 8:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> > > > > > trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> > > > > > separately.
> > > > > > R
>
> > > > > Costello doesn't care about the price of either. *it is strictly what
> > > > > we mutually agree to. *I don't think you are required to report a
> > > > > price to the FAA either. *The DMV might care about the trailer price
> > > > > though. *And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability.. *They
> > > > > might care about trailer price too.
>
> > > > > Matt
>
> > > > The feds don't care what price you put on the bill of sale, but it
> > > > will be reported to the state of California (by the feds) and if you
> > > > do not pay Use Tax (aka sales tax) on it within I think it's 90 days
> > > > you will get a bill from the State Board of Equalization. The bill
> > > > will have your tax calculated based on the $ amount you have reported
> > > > on the bill of sale times the use tax rate for your county +penalty
> > > > +interest, unless you intend to keep it out of state.
>
> > > > When you go to DMV (to register) you will have to pay Use Tax on the
> > > > trailer based on how much you payed for it. If you're an honest tax
> > > > payer like me you might consider having your seller give you 2
> > > > separate receipts, 1 for the trailer and 1 for the glider both adding
> > > > up to the total price of the purchase to make you trip to DMV more
> > > > enjoyable.
>
> > > > Then next year be prepared to get a property tax bill from your county
> > > > tax man. It will be assessed at proposition 13 rates of 1% of the
> > > > value, you will get that every year. One way around that one is if
> > > > your glider or airplane is 35 years or older you can apply for an
> > > > exemption based on a historical exemption.
>
> > > There is absolutely no use tax on a sailplane in California, aircraft
> > > not capable of "powered navigation" are exempt -- so motorglider
> > > owners (like me) pay sales tax. The state can try billing you whatever
> > > they want - if you've paid an invalid use tax bill on a glider I thank
> > > you for you donation to the state of California.
>
> > > You will get assessed a property tax, pretty insignificant in the
> > > overall picture. And where i keep my glider the county puts that fee
> > > towards local airport maintenance so I feel good about paying it.
>
> > > Darryl
>
> > Darryl is correct. *No use tax in California for gliders. *There is
> > also a use tax exemption for buying an aircraft from a family member
> > (even with a motor, I believe). *I have been told that the tax man
> > swings by the airport around January each year to count up the planes
> > to assess property taxes. *How does he determine the value to tax if
> > no price is reported to the FAA? *And if the aircraft is not at the
> > airport in January, I guess he misses it that year?
>
> > Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The state pukes read the fed aircraft registry every year and send out
> a 'feeler' letter to any ship that isn't in their system. They know
> nothing more than type aircraft, N number and your address. They will
> ask for purchase price, condition, aivionics, etc. Tell them what your
> conscience directs, rembering it is not a sin to lie to the tax man!
>
> Years back I got this letter and told them the ship was in
> Nevada...............3 months later I got a letter from Nevada, so I
> told them the ship was in California. Didn't work, the Counties talk
> to each other! Nevada (Washo Co) sent me a tax bill and had no
> interest in discussing the amount.
>
> Bottom line....most County assessors know very little about sailplanes
> and believed my LS-6 was worth 15K. That ship is now the proud
> possession of Matt's daddy!
> Cheers,
> JJ
> JJ

You don't need to get all twisted up in lying to the state franchise
board. You just need to point out it is a glider and exempt from state
sales/use tax.

As for local property tax. Pay the man. Colusa county in particular
routes aircraft property tax back into airport maintenance and that's
a good thing. Other counties do as well.

Darryl

On Oct 5, 11:52*am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Oct 5, 6:36*am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 4, 11:15*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 4, 9:06*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 4, 4:16*pm, glidergeek > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 4, 8:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> > > > > > > trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> > > > > > > separately.
> > > > > > > R
>
> > > > > > Costello doesn't care about the price of either. *it is strictly what
> > > > > > we mutually agree to. *I don't think you are required to report a
> > > > > > price to the FAA either. *The DMV might care about the trailer price
> > > > > > though. *And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability. *They
> > > > > > might care about trailer price too.
>
> > > > > > Matt
>
> > > > > The feds don't care what price you put on the bill of sale, but it
> > > > > will be reported to the state of California (by the feds) and if you
> > > > > do not pay Use Tax (aka sales tax) on it within I think it's 90 days
> > > > > you will get a bill from the State Board of Equalization. The bill
> > > > > will have your tax calculated based on the $ amount you have reported
> > > > > on the bill of sale times the use tax rate for your county +penalty
> > > > > +interest, unless you intend to keep it out of state.
>
> > > > > When you go to DMV (to register) you will have to pay Use Tax on the
> > > > > trailer based on how much you payed for it. If you're an honest tax
> > > > > payer like me you might consider having your seller give you 2
> > > > > separate receipts, 1 for the trailer and 1 for the glider both adding
> > > > > up to the total price of the purchase to make you trip to DMV more
> > > > > enjoyable.
>
> > > > > Then next year be prepared to get a property tax bill from your county
> > > > > tax man. It will be assessed at proposition 13 rates of 1% of the
> > > > > value, you will get that every year. One way around that one is if
> > > > > your glider or airplane is 35 years or older you can apply for an
> > > > > exemption based on a historical exemption.
>
> > > > There is absolutely no use tax on a sailplane in California, aircraft
> > > > not capable of "powered navigation" are exempt -- so motorglider
> > > > owners (like me) pay sales tax. The state can try billing you whatever
> > > > they want - if you've paid an invalid use tax bill on a glider I thank
> > > > you for you donation to the state of California.
>
> > > > You will get assessed a property tax, pretty insignificant in the
> > > > overall picture. And where i keep my glider the county puts that fee
> > > > towards local airport maintenance so I feel good about paying it.
>
> > > > Darryl
>
> > > Darryl is correct. *No use tax in California for gliders. *There is
> > > also a use tax exemption for buying an aircraft from a family member
> > > (even with a motor, I believe). *I have been told that the tax man
> > > swings by the airport around January each year to count up the planes
> > > to assess property taxes. *How does he determine the value to tax if
> > > no price is reported to the FAA? *And if the aircraft is not at the
> > > airport in January, I guess he misses it that year?
>
> > > Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > The state pukes read the fed aircraft registry every year and send out
> > a 'feeler' letter to any ship that isn't in their system. They know
> > nothing more than type aircraft, N number and your address. They will
> > ask for purchase price, condition, aivionics, etc. Tell them what your
> > conscience directs, rembering it is not a sin to lie to the tax man!
>
> > Years back I got this letter and told them the ship was in
> > Nevada...............3 months later I got a letter from Nevada, so I
> > told them the ship was in California. Didn't work, the Counties talk
> > to each other! Nevada (Washo Co) sent me a tax bill and had no
> > interest in discussing the amount.
>
> > Bottom line....most County assessors know very little about sailplanes
> > and believed my LS-6 was worth 15K. That ship is now the proud
> > possession of Matt's daddy!
> > Cheers,
> > JJ
> > JJ
>
> You don't need to get all twisted up in lying to the state franchise
> board. You just need to point out it is a glider and exempt from state
> sales/use tax.
>
> As for local property tax. Pay the man. Colusa county in particular
> routes aircraft property tax back into airport maintenance and that's
> a good thing. Other counties do as well.
>
> Darryl

Is local property tax assessed based on the location of the glider or
the owner? what is the rate for you Darryl, 1%? How did the local
tax guy determine the value of the aircraft?

Matt

On Oct 5, 4:08*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
> On Oct 5, 11:52*am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 5, 6:36*am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 4, 11:15*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 4, 9:06*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 4, 4:16*pm, glidergeek > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 4, 8:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 3, 9:01*am, hretting > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I' forgot, I would get a separate bill of sale for the glider and
> > > > > > > > trailer to avoid having to chase it down later. Constello insures them
> > > > > > > > separately.
> > > > > > > > R
>
> > > > > > > Costello doesn't care about the price of either. *it is strictly what
> > > > > > > we mutually agree to. *I don't think you are required to report a
> > > > > > > price to the FAA either. *The DMV might care about the trailer price
> > > > > > > though. *And I don't know about my auto insurance for liability. *They
> > > > > > > might care about trailer price too.
>
> > > > > > > Matt
>
> > > > > > The feds don't care what price you put on the bill of sale, but it
> > > > > > will be reported to the state of California (by the feds) and if you
> > > > > > do not pay Use Tax (aka sales tax) on it within I think it's 90 days
> > > > > > you will get a bill from the State Board of Equalization. The bill
> > > > > > will have your tax calculated based on the $ amount you have reported
> > > > > > on the bill of sale times the use tax rate for your county +penalty
> > > > > > +interest, unless you intend to keep it out of state.
>
> > > > > > When you go to DMV (to register) you will have to pay Use Tax on the
> > > > > > trailer based on how much you payed for it. If you're an honest tax
> > > > > > payer like me you might consider having your seller give you 2
> > > > > > separate receipts, 1 for the trailer and 1 for the glider both adding
> > > > > > up to the total price of the purchase to make you trip to DMV more
> > > > > > enjoyable.
>
> > > > > > Then next year be prepared to get a property tax bill from your county
> > > > > > tax man. It will be assessed at proposition 13 rates of 1% of the
> > > > > > value, you will get that every year. One way around that one is if
> > > > > > your glider or airplane is 35 years or older you can apply for an
> > > > > > exemption based on a historical exemption.
>
> > > > > There is absolutely no use tax on a sailplane in California, aircraft
> > > > > not capable of "powered navigation" are exempt -- so motorglider
> > > > > owners (like me) pay sales tax. The state can try billing you whatever
> > > > > they want - if you've paid an invalid use tax bill on a glider I thank
> > > > > you for you donation to the state of California.
>
> > > > > You will get assessed a property tax, pretty insignificant in the
> > > > > overall picture. And where i keep my glider the county puts that fee
> > > > > towards local airport maintenance so I feel good about paying it.
>
> > > > > Darryl
>
> > > > Darryl is correct. *No use tax in California for gliders. *There is
> > > > also a use tax exemption for buying an aircraft from a family member
> > > > (even with a motor, I believe). *I have been told that the tax man
> > > > swings by the airport around January each year to count up the planes
> > > > to assess property taxes. *How does he determine the value to tax if
> > > > no price is reported to the FAA? *And if the aircraft is not at the
> > > > airport in January, I guess he misses it that year?
>
> > > > Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > The state pukes read the fed aircraft registry every year and send out
> > > a 'feeler' letter to any ship that isn't in their system. They know
> > > nothing more than type aircraft, N number and your address. They will
> > > ask for purchase price, condition, aivionics, etc. Tell them what your
> > > conscience directs, rembering it is not a sin to lie to the tax man!
>
> > > Years back I got this letter and told them the ship was in
> > > Nevada...............3 months later I got a letter from Nevada, so I
> > > told them the ship was in California. Didn't work, the Counties talk
> > > to each other! Nevada (Washo Co) sent me a tax bill and had no
> > > interest in discussing the amount.
>
> > > Bottom line....most County assessors know very little about sailplanes
> > > and believed my LS-6 was worth 15K. That ship is now the proud
> > > possession of Matt's daddy!
> > > Cheers,
> > > JJ
> > > JJ
>
> > You don't need to get all twisted up in lying to the state franchise
> > board. You just need to point out it is a glider and exempt from state
> > sales/use tax.
>
> > As for local property tax. Pay the man. Colusa county in particular
> > routes aircraft property tax back into airport maintenance and that's
> > a good thing. Other counties do as well.
>
> > Darryl
>
> Is local property tax assessed based on the location of the glider or
> the owner? *what is the rate for you Darryl, 1%? *How did the local
> tax guy determine the value of the aircraft?
>
> Matt

It is the location of the property not the owner. It is based on where
the glider spends most of its time. My residential county contacted me
after purchase (they watch the FAA filings) and invited me to pay, I
just let them know the glider is not kept in their county and gave
them details for where it is kept. I have no idea if they contacted
the other county or not - but those guys survey aircraft at the
gliderports anyhow and I'm happy to pay (but only to one county). Most
likely the county assessor will ask you for a valuation, they might
followup asking for a bill of sale etc. if they suspect B.S., or if
they have glider ports in your area they may assume one based on
similar gliders. The rate varies from county to county. Call you local
county assessors office or look up their web site.

Darryl

Matt - make sure you get logbooks going back to day 1 of the glider with
hours, and maintenance.

Congratulations,

MG

Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I am looking for some advice on the forms and process I need to go
> through, to buy a glider registered in the US. From what I can tell,
> I need a Bill of Sale (form 8050-2) and an Aircraft Registration
> Application (form 8050-1). It appears that the latter form is only
> available from the local FSDO (San Jose in my case). Then I need to
> transfer title of the glider trailer at the DMV by having the previous
> owner sign over the pink slip.
>
> What am I missing, and what have I gotten wrong?
>
> Any advice is greatly appreciated.
>
> Matt (Jr)

On Oct 3, 10:35*am, fcnorton > wrote:
>
> In addition, the as the certificate holder the previous owner was
> required to fill out the reverse side of the current airworthiness
> certificate and return it to the FAA. *
>

Wrong.
Seller sends the FAA the old REGISTRATION Certificate, not the
Airworthiness Certificate!
Buyer submits an application for new registration with a bill of sale
(and fee) to the FAA.
Do not remove the Airworthiness Certificate from the aircraft!
Please consult with your FAA FSDO or see faa.gov for the correct
process.

welcome to 2016, if you need a loan or you need money to start up a business or to pay off your bills, contact me now
if you are poor and you need assistance contact me and i will give you money okay, if you have been cheated before i can help you with a genuine loan, contact me now via email
thanks

Also had mine "new registration"returned from faa " legal dept" for not Printing "under" my signature not below. In other words they wanted me to print then sign right on top or over my name! YRMV.

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 8:20:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Also had mine "new registration"returned from faa " legal dept" for not Printing "under" my signature not below. In other words they wanted me to print then sign right on top or over my name! YRMV.

me too! and meanwhile my temporary registration has been extended 90 days

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 6:45:03 PM UTC-8, PAGA wrote:
> On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 8:20:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > Also had mine "new registration"returned from faa " legal dept" for not Printing "under" my signature not below. In other words they wanted me to print then sign right on top or over my name! YRMV.
>
> me too! and meanwhile my temporary registration has been extended 90 days

Me too. they don't provide a space for printing the name. When they sent it back they didn't say what was wrong. I called and got a nasty response implying I was an idiot. Thanks for sharing, I feel less stupid now.

I had a similar experience. My registration was returned simply because
I did not print my name below, not underneath, my signature. My name
was printed elsewhere on the registration form but, not wanting to ****
on the Devil's boots, I just printed my name below my signature and
returned the form. It was accepted.

On 1/8/2016 6:20 PM, wrote:
> Also had mine "new registration"returned from faa " legal dept" for not Printing "under" my signature not below. In other words they wanted me to print then sign right on top or over my name! YRMV.

--
Dan, 5J

But don't you feel "safer" now knowing that our government is fighting
terrorism by making you jump through their hoops?

On 1/8/2016 11:22 PM, xcnick wrote:
> On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 6:45:03 PM UTC-8, PAGA wrote:
>> On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 8:20:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>> Also had mine "new registration"returned from faa " legal dept" for not Printing "under" my signature not below. In other words they wanted me to print then sign right on top or over my name! YRMV.
>> me too! and meanwhile my temporary registration has been extended 90 days
> Me too. they don't provide a space for printing the name. When they sent it back they didn't say what was wrong. I called and got a nasty response implying I was an idiot. Thanks for sharing, I feel less stupid now.

--
Dan, 5J

Same thing happened to me in 2012.

Lou

I called and asked our friends at the FAA what percentage of those forms are returned because they are filled out wrong. The nice lady said about 3/4 of them. I said "Doesn't that tell you something?"

Boggs

On 1/9/2016 10:49 AM, Waveguru wrote:
> I called and asked our friends at the FAA what percentage of those forms
> are returned because they are filled out wrong. The nice lady said about
> 3/4 of them. I said "Doesn't that tell you something?"
>
> Boggs
>

Did she then ask for your name?

Mine didn't get returned (and I don't recall doing the "overwrite thing"), so
mebbe it's a newer policy designed to support the USPS? Politics am surely
strange...

Bob W.

Must be that 3/4 aircraft owners are stupid ;-)


On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 9:49:44 AM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
> The nice lady said about 3/4 of them. I said "Doesn't that tell you something?"

Next time I'll sign it below, above around and over my printed name :) Its really OK though, cause every 90 days fill out another form with a 1 letter change of address and your good to go for 3 more months just keep your pink copy and don't bother sending in the rest :)

Ouch! You must be one of the smart guys, Tom :-P

My return was in 2011 so they've been doing it at least that long.

On 1/9/2016 9:37 PM, wrote:
> Must be that 3/4 aircraft owners are stupid ;-)
>
>
> On Saturday, January 9, 2016 at 9:49:44 AM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
>> The nice lady said about 3/4 of them. I said "Doesn't that tell you something?"

--
Dan, 5J